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atmosphereconf-vods.wisp.place/
1WEBVTT
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5Thank you.
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9Thank you.
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13Thank you.
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17Thank you.
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21Welcome to the afternoon section of the media and civics track.
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25We're going to spend the next three sessions talking about sovereignty and what that means.
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29You're not going to hear from me too quick.
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33I'm going to pass off to our first speaker right away.
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37There's a lot of, you know, for the people that are double screening, just want to point out that there's chatter on the stream place.
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41And we've got a lot of stream place folks here, so I just want to say hi to you all.
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45Thank you very much for tuning in.
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49There's often questions and commentary going on there, so feel free to be in there and be chatting away and just be socializing like crazy.
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53The atmosphere comp hashtag on blue skies has also been popping off.
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57I'm sure you all know. I mean, I'm talking to the right people here, so you guys all know what's going on.
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61And yeah, so let's just keep the conversation going.
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65And I'll just turn it over and you can self intro and everything. Thank you very much.
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69Yeah. Hi. Welcome, everybody.
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73I hope you had a good lunch break.
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77Welcome back to our afternoon session.
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81Hi, I'm Sandra.
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85I will speak about digital serenity and how that goes advocating for it in Europe.
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89And I'm very thankful for New Public because I'm one of some speakers that could make it to atmosphere comp due to the sponsorship and New Public.
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93So thanks very much for having me.
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97I feel honored.
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101I feel honored. Oh, sorry. No, there it is.
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105OK, OK, OK. So I should use this one.
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109Yeah. So within the next 30 minutes, I will speak a little about what's going on with digital serenity and what the concepts in Europe are discussed about this.
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113And the goal really is to exchange knowledge, knowledge on framing what people use in Canada and Europe, but also on a more global perspective, because I think it's very important to exchange knowledge and get to know each other and everything.
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117And I also think that we need to speak more about our political demands.
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121It's good and relevant to build things and to use existing infrastructure.
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125But I think it's also very important to to be more present about what we demand, actually.
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129And if we have a little bit time left, I would like to speak a little bit about cross-portrait call cooperation.
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133Yeah, so that's me. I'm Sandra.
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137I live in Vienna and Berlin.
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141My professional background is within political science, but I also worked in communication and the policy field on several projects.
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145And as you can see by my different handles, I'm not only active within a tip proto, but also I'm coming from the activity pub field.
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149So the penguin is my handle within Macedon and activity pub.
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153And that being said, besides my professional background, I'm engaged since more than 10 years within the digital rights environment.
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157So I advocate for freedom of information in Austria.
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161By now, we finally, after more than 15 years, have a freedom of information act.
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165And it's always about openness and digital user rights.
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169So this is my perspective.
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173But I'm also active with a cause communication Congress.
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177I don't know who have you heard of this. Yeah. OK.
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181So and they're putting up some ethical principles.
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185They commit themselves to. And I feel very connected to those.
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189It's not only about making public data available, but also protecting private data and stating that information should be free.
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193But there's also one, the third one, which brings us to our topic, which is promote decentralization. Right.
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197So how did I come here? We had in Europe exactly one year ago, we had something called a hoy, which was our European social web day.
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201Together with the indie sky. And that's where I met Bobos and Ted and also Sebastian from Europe Sky, which we had the launch in November, which was a very valuable day.
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205And you can rewatch all the videos on that presentations as well.
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209And then by now, I'm lucky we're here and I hope there will be many more atmosphere conference and maybe someone in Europe.
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213I think that will be something to look for. So let's get into it. So I think I don't have to speak that much about it while we're here, but just to maybe bring some attention.
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217Digital sovereignty is since the last year a topic, not only for Europe, but also in Canada. Right.
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221So and that your sky. I met Jen from Ganda, who spoke also about their their discussions about digital sovereignty.
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225And we also had like several incidents, I would call them, with regard to international organizations, but also threatening governments and their societies with different outcomes. Let's say that way.
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229So. We speak about digital sovereignty.
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233The main idea is to develop an own technical stack. So you overcome relying on providers that are subject to foreign jurisdiction.
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237The other biggest, the other second idea is that you need to support European corporations in order to get to reach digital sovereignty.
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241I would like to highlight that with this approach, I think the danger of sovereignty washing, just as we have open washing is is growing therefore.
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245So digital sovereignty.
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249And the agenda around this is also intertwined with the efforts to build alternatives to centralize big tech social networks. Right.
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253And we need to have a space for our public discourse. We need to be able to exchange freely and have a pluralistic information ecosystem.
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257And sorry, I would argue and I will argue that we need to do this through building and using existing public social networks that are based on open protocols.
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261And what we see right now within different developments for European social networks.
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265There are very different approaches, let's say that way.
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269So we have European locked in social networks. That was just the start of medium, a German one.
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273But also, as you probably know, we have other open protocol based ones that but connect themselves to each verification and I.D. scans like we social.
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277And then to put even more one aspect of an idea and not very valuable one in my eyes for state run digital infrastructure and social networks.
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281So the French president Emmanuel Macron gave a speech last autumn where he analyzed the situation. Right.
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285I think. But when it comes to saying that anonymous accounts are the problem, I think that is not that right, because hate is spread as well with full names in the Internet field.
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289So that's why I'm very much pro right for anonymity. And we have that right. And we should still fight hard for that right. Also against our authorities against our national governments.
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293And just a little bit short, I have to speed up a little. This this concept of state run digital infrastructure in the academic field.
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297It's called digital public infrastructure, DPI. And in the European context, it's mainly thought about European digital wallet, I.D. systems, payment systems.
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301But the focus is state run, state control. So it's state control over their citizens.
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305And I think or I hope what we all here are more in favor of is public digital infrastructure.
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309So digital infrastructure for the public and also run by the public, but public funded as well without state control.
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313So this is the concept of public digital infrastructure. There there's already some conceptual work around it.
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317I put the references here. So I hope if you're interested, you can check that out even more so.
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321Yeah.
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325So the first association, I think one has of speaking about digital sovereignty and Europe is of course you do it by legislation, right?
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329You probably heard about the general data protection regulations, GDPR, and the more younger ones, the digital service act and the digital markets act.
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333And the DMA is more there to make sure that our digital markets function well.
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337So the European Union established themselves the goal to have functional markets, right?
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341And they acknowledged that this is not that there yet.
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345So the DMA was put up for that to fight against oligopol and to to to make sure that you can users have choices.
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349And then the DSA is more consumer rights function.
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353So it would there are the rights included that how you can delete stuff or your general rights against digital corporations.
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357And I would say that was and is a success story.
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361You have on both ends, you have people arguing the enforcement of the DSA is still too weak.
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365And on the other hand, you have I will come back to that voices that say we need to deregulate even more and we need to have the so-called digital omnibus that that want to get rid of a lot of user rights on the premise of then.
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369Our economic standards in Europe have become more powerful, so to speak.
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373Just shortly, we have also European threats against our own legislation.
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377I would call them.
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381We have the case of a former lobbyist of meta who is now a member of our European parliament and by the EP was nominated as the appointed repertoire on exact this digital omnibus.
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385So I think what it's clear what the problem is.
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389And also within European jurisdiction, a lot of digital companies put their head offices in Ireland because they have the lowest taxes there.
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393But also the the the enforcement of the regulation is somewhat unsatisfactory.
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397At the factory, Max Scrams and his none of your business association is trying to enforce more and more of the DSA also against Irish pressures.
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401And a different aspect is also that it's very unequal forces.
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405So this is a study by corporate Europe Observatory and Lobby Control and it's stating that just in 2025, just for Brussels.
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409So it's not about Berlin lobbyists or lobbyists situated in Berlin or in Paris.
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413It's just for Brussels.
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417It's one hundred fifty million euros just this year.
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421So you can see it's of high relevance what digital policies are about the digital policies we have in Europe.
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425Yeah. So a little bit deeper on on our what's going on in Europe.
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429Last May, we had an election on our European parliament.
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433And what's relevant there is that we had a change of majorities.
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437And by now we have a conservative right majority within the European parliament.
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441And also what is very important for this year is that we have the negotiations on the so-called multi annual financial framework, more or less the budget of the European Union.
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445And this is also an indicator right now.
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449It's very important to put up our political demands because what's not now in the budget won't be there for the next six years.
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453So we have like this year is really, really important.
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457And that's why I make all the effort to spread the message because we need to be loud because money wise, we don't even get there anyway.
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461All we have is the power of us.
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465And I would like to spread some ideas of what political demands could be so we all can repeat them and spread them.
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469So, yeah, I hope I hope you join me in this effort.
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473And as I said, we need to fight this deregulation and simplification approach.
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477And what's what's a hopeful aspect of it.
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481The DMA probably will be expanded for social networks as well.
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485And the debate for expanding interoperability is also strong but needs more commitment, I think.
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489But those are two positive things.
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493And this picture here shows our panel discussion, which we had at Fostem, a very big developer conference in Brussels.
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497And Alexandra Giese is member of the European Parliament and she's very active in pointing out our approaches as well.
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501That open protocol based social networks are relevant for democracy and they need funding as well.
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505So I want to give a shout out to her and her whole team.
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509So, as I told you before, the main tool for how European Union thinks they will achieve digital sovereignty is by the idea of implementing Eurostax.
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513There are different approaches on this.
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517But more or less, it's the idea of we need to buy European and then we will reach digital sovereignty.
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521So, more or less, and that's my critical standpoint of it, it says we just need the same infrastructure, just make it European and then our problems are solved.
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525And I think that's obviously not the case.
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529So I come up with three critique points that would broaden the concept of digital sovereignty.
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533Right now it's very narrow and I think it makes a lot of sense to broaden it up because then digital sovereignty will help us solve anyway their societal problems on a long term basis.
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537Yeah, so what are my critique points?
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541So the first critique point is that making it European is not enough, right?
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545It needs to be open and public benefit as well.
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549Those are indicators that will help achieve real digital sovereignty, real digital autonomy, also for the users against their authorities, so to speak.
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553And also it helps bringing people together, working collaboratively on ideas.
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557It's in many ways beneficial, I would argue.
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561And just to give a little bit spotlight on European initiatives, the Open Firm Europe took up on the idea of a European sovereign tech front, which is a very valuable concept in my eyes.
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565That's why I want to highlight their work.
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569Nick Gates is the one working on this.
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573The second critique point is that buying European, of course, will be done with public money, right?
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577And so if the idea is that you spent a high amount of public money buying European private products, I would argue from a user rights based approach that of course some amount of this public money then needs to be spent in order to buy and establish public digital infrastructure.
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581It's so obvious for me. It's always very hard for me to state that because in my eyes.
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585Yeah. And if you don't know it by now, the Free Software Foundation Europe has this long campaign for public money, public code, which we refer to as well.
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589And Matthias Kirchner is the president of this organization.
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593And as this topic is debated within the German parliament, quite well, we found out that just on the federal level from the German state, they spent around 750 Canadian dollars per year just for Microsoft licenses.
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597Yeah.
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601OK. So public procurement is like a very relevant level leveler.
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605And another very recommended organization, the Public Future, the Open Future Institute by and Aditya and Susanne Roswell just published this some days ago.
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609But I recommend reading all of their policy briefs. It's very valuable knowledge.
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613They pointed out like how that we need to focus more on public procurement and exactly that's also what happening.
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617More and more governments or state entities decide to procure open source based software.
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621But and just to name some. So the Austrian one Austrian ministry started to using Nextcloud within the hybrid version.
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625The Austrian army uses open desk open desk as a tool that was as written there as well developed by the German senders.
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629The German army uses matrix. And so the list goes on. But still we have other approaches like the state of Bavaria buying Microsoft products again for one.
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633How you say that billion years. One. Yeah. A lot of money without like a legal legal legal right to do so actually.
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637So and this is especially relevant. Like we already have several building blocks of public digital infrastructure.
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641Right. They're all open open open source based and they are there and they could be buy it.
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645So to say if not at least funded. And that's what we should do.
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649I think and of course inter-opera social networks are a relevant part of of such and stack.
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653And my third critique point would be exactly that that if we want to achieve real digital serenity social networks need to be understood as a relevant part of that and social.
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657So like we can't achieve digital serenity without social serenity.
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661And Hannah Aubrey who is the community director of Macedon published a blog post on that if you want to read further.
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665So all of this critique I addressed also to politicians themselves.
666
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669In autumn there was this summit on European digital serenity and when it was announced and the program was announced it was obvious that the main topics circle around AI and cloud infrastructure and stuff.
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673And we sat together and tried to find a way to bring our demands to the table.
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677So what we did is I found co-founded the Alliance called Open Networks and Democratic Public Spheres.
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681But now we are supported with more than 30 other organizations.
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685We come up with four demands that interact with which is the other.
686
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68800:24:25.000 --> 00:24:31.000
689Yeah. And again to establish long term solutions.
690
691173
69200:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.000
693That's the goal. Yeah.
694
695174
69600:24:34.000 --> 00:24:39.000
697And I will present only one demand of those that we had.
698
699175
70000:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.000
701And I think that's a very impactful one.
702
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705I've Stockman who is the head of the digital affairs within Berlin library came up with the so-called plus one principle.
706
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70800:24:52.000 --> 00:25:05.000
709And this plus one principle is addressed at public institutions because again they are funded with public money so they should feel a higher.
710
711178
71200:25:05.000 --> 00:25:12.000
713I say that they should feel responsible to make wise decisions.
714
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71600:25:12.000 --> 00:25:27.000
717And if they're doing social media communications they should feel obliged to publish their communications in at least one open protocol open protocol based social network.
718
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72000:25:27.000 --> 00:25:35.000
721Right. And as this was presented at our Berlin FEDI day it has the federal logo.
722
723181
72400:25:35.000 --> 00:25:36.000
725I hope you don't mind.
726
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729But the argument is yeah if they say we need to stay on those big tech platforms we can't leave because there are the people whoever that then still is that makes a bridge to say OK if you think you have to stay there at least to do one other social network.
730
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73200:26:00.000 --> 00:26:02.000
733Yeah.
734
735184
73600:26:02.000 --> 00:26:15.000
737And I want to highlight also to Lawrence block about connected places he writes about both protocols and it's very critical which is good.
738
739185
74000:26:15.000 --> 00:26:28.000
741And he says lawmakers should not only speak about digital sovereignty but they should use the networks that are already there. Otherwise it's just birds right.
742
743186
74400:26:28.000 --> 00:26:31.000
745And I think he's right on that one.
746
747187
74800:26:32.000 --> 00:26:42.000
749It's not only about social networks. I think again the interrelatedness is also should be important for media systems.
750
751188
75200:26:42.000 --> 00:26:54.000
753And maybe you have heard of this public spaces incubator which is an initiative not only for European public bar crosses but also non European ones.
754
755189
75600:26:54.000 --> 00:27:05.000
757And besides their prototypes they want to implement both protocols within their network services.
758
759190
76000:27:05.000 --> 00:27:08.000
761And I think this is something to look out for.
762
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76400:27:08.000 --> 00:27:22.000
765OK. Five more minutes. Another initiative I want to highlight is a social. They came up with 10 demands on their own.
766
767192
76800:27:22.000 --> 00:27:33.000
769And what what their latest initiative is the so-called Digital Independence Day. So the first Sunday every month they call for Digital Independence Day.
770
771193
77200:27:33.000 --> 00:27:45.000
773And then there is at least on this one Sunday you can try to switch over from one big tech services to one non big tech.
774
775194
77600:27:45.000 --> 00:27:54.000
777And so they come up at D dot day with several cookbook recipes which are differentiated between is it easy or is it hard.
778
779195
78000:27:54.000 --> 00:28:00.000
781How hard is it. And they tell you step by step what you need to think about and how you can do that.
782
783196
78400:28:00.000 --> 00:28:08.000
785And I think that's only not from from an individual user user's perspective but also again for public institutions.
786
787197
78800:28:08.000 --> 00:28:24.000
789It's like very helpful to have examples of initiatives that have done that. So for example the University of Innsbruck is hosting their own Macedon server right at their own instance for all for all employees.
790
791198
79200:28:24.000 --> 00:28:34.000
793And they will extend that to students as well and making services as pixel fed for example usable for those.
794
795199
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797So please check out the day that I checked yesterday and there will be one event on the fifth of April.
798
799200
80000:28:40.000 --> 00:28:51.000
801The fifth of April will be the next one in Colorado I think. But maybe in Canada we soon have events as well that will be nice right.
802
803201
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805So to sum up what are some demands that I think are available for not even not all only Europe.
806
807202
80800:29:02.000 --> 00:29:09.000
809I think we need to push further that interoperability is expanded and portability will be established.
810
811203
81200:29:09.000 --> 00:29:17.000
813So not only data portability but of course it to proto portability of identities and feeds right.
814
815204
81600:29:17.000 --> 00:29:31.000
817To make real choices available and we need to call for funding for public digital infrastructure and implement the one plus one principle at least for public institutions.
818
819205
82000:29:31.000 --> 00:29:40.000
821So three more minutes left. That's good.
822
823206
82400:29:40.000 --> 00:29:49.000
825As you have heard my background is with an activity pub. So I'm active there since some years.
826
827207
82800:29:49.000 --> 00:30:08.000
829And not only because of my nature of I want to get to know more people and their ideas and I think that's the strength for us to get to know each other and learn from us.
830
831208
83200:30:08.000 --> 00:30:26.000
833I think we have within the open protocols I think we have some fields that I think would make perfect examples where we can work together or at least talk to each other despite differences.
834
835209
83600:30:26.000 --> 00:30:36.000
837I think the field of moderation is such a topic as well as trust and safety and the one I'm here for policy and advocacy.
838
839210
84000:30:36.000 --> 00:30:44.000
841So if you're working in that field around policy and advocacy please let us talk later.
842
843211
84400:30:45.000 --> 00:31:02.000
845And yeah I just want to make the point that we need more cooperation and I hope such events atmosphere make that possible for us.
846
847212
84800:31:02.000 --> 00:31:15.000
849One example I was invited to join just Michael from if this and Aaron from blue sky to speak about trust and safety exactly in Canadian Embassy in Berlin.
850
851213
85200:31:15.000 --> 00:31:21.000
853So yeah hopefully we have more more meetings like this and yeah work together.
854
855214
85600:31:22.000 --> 00:31:42.000
857So I would like to call to work together get to know each other learn from each other in order so we can achieve a better future for all of us no matter if we're in Europe or elsewhere.
858
859215
86000:31:43.000 --> 00:31:58.000
861And yeah I hope we can get to know each other better repeat our method messages together together in general and yeah please let's do that.
862
863216
86400:31:58.000 --> 00:32:05.000
865So if you want to stay in contact I'll reach out those here you can find me but also I will be here to Monday as well.
866
867217
86800:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.000
869Thanks so much.
870
871218
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873Thank you very much Sandra.
874
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877Find Sandra around there are other policy folks around here public spaces if you're interested in that we've got some people over here that thank you for raising your hand that know all about that and you can.
878