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atmosphereconf-vods.wisp.place/
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5Thank you.
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9Thank you.
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13Thank you.
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17Thank you.
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21Thank you.
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25Thank you.
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29Thank you.
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33Thank you.
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37Thank you.
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41Thank you.
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45Thank you.
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49Thank you.
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53Thank you.
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57Thank you.
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61My name is Justin Bank.
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65I am the founder of a new entity called the independent journalism atlas.
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69That's our logo we're quite proud of.
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73We launched seven weeks ago in Miami at the night media forum.
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77These are my two cofounders, Ryan and Liz Kelly Nelson.
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81If I can do a little bragging real quick.
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85The three of us met at the Washington Post 15 years ago.
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89I was in charge of something called audience development.
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93Can I ask anybody in the room, has anybody heard the phrase audience development before?
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97Cool.
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101It's so funny that it dovetails with journalism.
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105Those of us who worked in the field of journalism in the last 10, 15 years, I was fortunate to be at the Washington Post 15 years ago.
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109It goes through the whole industry.
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113We make journalism.
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117We know every day we make the news.
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121We publish it out.
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125We broadcast it out.
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129What does it mean to get people's attention?
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133For years people were able to publish things and the distribution mechanism.
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137Whether it was a physical relic that was put on people's door steps or delivered in their mailboxes.
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141Or it was broadcast across spectrum in a matter of ways.
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145You could presume out it goes.
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149For the people constructing the news inside the newsrooms, whether they are reporters working in a city newsroom,
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153or whether they are foreign correspondent filing dispatches,
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157to think about what it means to gather the information and get it out to folks in that product sense,
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161was a wildly new idea 15 years ago.
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165The three of us meet at the Washington Post around 2010 doing that kind of work.
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169That's very blog era internet, right?
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173Liz actually was the celebrity blogger for the Washington Post in 2010.
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177That's when we met her.
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181She worked for a product called Celebritology.
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185She would put out 5, 7, 12 blog posts about whatever is going on in the celebrity world.
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189It was that version of internet.
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193Ryan and I were on the first version of an audience team at a newsroom.
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197Fast forward to today.
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201All three of us spent 20 years working in these places.
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205Our bios are on there.
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209In today's context, Liz has an amazing project called Project C, Project Creator.
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213In Project Creator, Liz in the last year and a half has just a mouse and butter,
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217churns herself, this amazing community of people who are independent journalism creators,
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221building their own products, building their own business models, solo, preneur, small teams.
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225It's an amazing community of folks.
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229It's Liz's work primarily.
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233Ryan recently finished out a Nieman Fellowship at Harvard studying creator economy,
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237getting very academic about it, rolling off of a great tenure at Axios,
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241where he was trying to figure out that Axios model of smart brevity.
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245How do you take that to the local communities?
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249That was kind of Ryan's last project.
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253I was recently managing editor at the Washington Post,
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257actually with my friend and colleague, Lawrence Saxons,
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261who will be your leader to speak,
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265working on video strategy, design strategy, visuals writ large for the newsroom,
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269as well as audience strategy, which is kind of more of my background.
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273That background kind of took me to some interesting places at moments in time.
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277In short, I worked at these places and watched them burn,
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281is in a provocative way to say it.
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285Let's just take it smaller.
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289It's maybe different, we kind of say it as well.
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293The real takeaway, hopefully, is that word audience on that screen,
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297which kind of just captures what my role has been for, of course, 20 years in these places,
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301and the different things I've kind of seen.
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305So I want to dial into this one just really interesting anecdote.
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309I was at the Washington Post in 2011.
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313I was SEO editor.
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317To my knowledge, I was the first SEO editor in an American newsroom.
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321I know other folks who are doing stuff more from the marketing side of things.
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325And when I joined, it was amazing kind of like learning as I went to be like,
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329okay, I have this job.
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333I kind of BS'd my way into this.
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337What does this mean?
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341How do I help a news publisher every day kind of get their information out there?
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345I'd been there for a year or so when the Edward Snowden story happened.
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349Does everybody remember?
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353Cool.
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357And just real briefly, right, to remind ourselves, you know, a government-placed whistleblower
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361has this information, breaks it out.
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365It's one of the most seminal stories of our lifetime,
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369is that this person with bravery and a lot of this stuff kind of going on,
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373reveals their story.
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377The Washington Post and The Guardian were the two newspapers who got that information first.
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381When I was sitting in the Washington Post newsroom, we knew there was a big story happening.
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385You know, newsrooms are complicated.
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389Any institution you work in, any kind of organization, right,
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393there are different nodes and networks and layers kind of what's going on over there.
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397When this story happens, Marty Barron, our historically, you know, incredible,
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401like visionary editor who handles, like, big, you know, news stories,
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405his office has lots of senior editors buzzing into it,
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409and it has the investigative reporters going in.
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413If you work in a newsroom, you kind of learn to follow the foot traffic.
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417You can kind of figure out something's happening here.
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421You know, if you see a bunch of support reporters going in a certain direction,
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425you can kind of presume maybe there's a, you know, game kind of going on.
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429If you see a bunch of investigative reporters constantly going to Marty's office
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433with growing kind of rapidity for a couple days, you're thinking, okay,
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437like something's kind of going to happen over here.
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441At one point in time, we later learned there was this air-gapped computer
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445that Bart Gilman, the reporter working on this, had put into a room
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449that only people who were at certain clearance could go into.
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453Because we kind of moved further with audience development,
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457our social editor was allowed to read the story,
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461which was actually newer for us in 2011 for TJ to go in and read the story
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465and kind of know what to do.
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469So we published the story. It's going great.
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473You know, it's actually days of stories kind of rippling out.
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477There's kind of feedback loops of like, we have this information,
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481will another person give us more information?
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485That's how the news breaks out.
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489As this is happening, stories are doing great,
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493but we're noticing this trend that like by the afternoon,
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497the story is buried in Google News.
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501And so in 2011, here we are publishing scoop after scoop,
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505the Guardian's publishing scoop after scoop,
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509and by two in the afternoon, you go to Google News,
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513and the Huffington Post is there, or Buzzfeed is there,
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517and we had kind of learned a few tricks along the way.
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521One trick was we called self aggregation,
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525or what we would in turn joke, we'd call them SEO bombs.
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529I'm seeing and nodding.
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533Can I ask, have you had this experience in newsrooms you've been in?
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537I mean, I have to be the news group that it's been your time to do that.
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541We'll get to that in a second.
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545So on the right hand side over here,
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549God, I wish I could have found the original like screenshots I had from years ago,
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553but we had a 22 year old, you know, like junior reporter who was fabulous.
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557Max was a great, great reporter.
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561But after a couple of days, I said to Marty, you know, the traffic that,
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565you know, the audience is coming in, but we're losing the afternoon.
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569We've done this trick.
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573We've done this like self aggregation, the search bomb,
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577where we literally have a file ready.
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581We published the story in the morning,
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585just like any newspaper would because it had to go in the morning's paper.
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589By the afternoon, the algorithms were looking for that fresh story.
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593We'd say, you know, we see the aggregators beating us.
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597What if we just aggregate ourselves and kind of did something?
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601Max earned front stories about Edward Snowden, about the PRISM program,
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605were as widely read as the original reporting.
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609Now it was a pass through.
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613I don't show you the rest of this page,
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617which is literally just like a couple sentences and a link to it.
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621But we had to contort our product to compete with algorithms
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625or to compete on algorithms to get people to our stories,
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629which is the story of journalism over the last 10, 15, 20,
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633I don't even know how many years to put this thing here.
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637This is just my story.
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641This is the places I've been at the moments in time.
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645The New York Times, which I got to in 2014, at that point in time,
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649I got there actually just in time for the first adaption of Snapchat,
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653which was like dozens of people working really hard to figure out
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657how do we take this Folsom product, 180 stories a day.
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661I forgot the number, 27,000 words or so,
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665the amount of information that would take it,
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669an average human reader, eight and a half hours to get through,
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673what should be on Snapchat.
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677I actually think the Times, broadly speaking,
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681I had really positive experience there of like when we launched the Daily,
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685I was involved in that project, but hearing the editors involved saying,
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689what should the New York Times sound like, was a great provocation, I think,
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693of like, what are we good at in the New York Times?
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697We're good at gathering information, we're good at storytelling,
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701we're good at like, you know, sourcing,
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705but what's the new thing sound for them, right, to turn into a podcast company?
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709I think they've been wildly successful at it.
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713To show you a less than positive experience I had in this idea
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717of transformation product development,
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721I was in NPR for the years on the slide over here.
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725I found myself for a long time thinking, here I am at NPR,
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729and I was seen as like a newspaper guy, which was very funny to me
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733to spend these years at the Post and the Times, like Mr. Digital Guy.
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737Here I am at the broadcaster being the newspaper guy.
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741It took me months to figure out why NPR,
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745most people here are familiar with the American, you know,
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749public broadcasting system, has a series of amazing radio broadcast programs,
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753has a series of amazing podcasts.
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757If you go to their website, it's filled with news articles
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761that look like newspaper articles.
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765They're inverted pyramids that, you know, they have the facts at the top,
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769they kind of store it down, roughly 600 words to 1500 words.
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773First I didn't think much of it, but as I kind of spent more time
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777inside the organization, I thought, this is interesting,
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781like, this place has been around for 50 years.
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785People write radio scripts.
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789Scripts are very different than stories. They're a lot more narrative.
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793They kind of have more voice in it.
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797And it took me months to kind of understand, they did this
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801because they hired newspaper people to make their website for them.
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805For that strange reason, NPR.org, Tyler, you're shaking your head,
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809because you spent time there as well, right?
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813The amount of time you spent in this place thinking,
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817why did these people whose genius is getting information,
818
819205
82000:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.000
821whose genius is storytelling, and NPR specifically,
822
823206
82400:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.000
825their genius is audio storytelling.
826
827207
82800:15:24.000 --> 00:15:27.000
829They can kind of find sound that is wrestling in the background,
830
831208
83200:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.000
833and the right voice is that kind of in combination.
834
835209
83600:15:29.000 --> 00:15:32.000
837Like, to take from Aaron's amazing presentation she just gave,
838
839210
84000:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.000
841what's the register of conveying information?
842
843211
84400:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.000
845NPR, from an audio perspective, right? Legendary.
846
847212
84800:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.000
849Why were they making newspaper articles on websites?
850
851213
85200:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.000
853You know, it's confusing me, so it's been a couple years saying,
854
855214
85600:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.000
857why can't these radio scripts, which are very narrative,
858
859215
86000:15:45.000 --> 00:15:48.000
861turn into live blogs, which was my great challenge there.
862
863216
86400:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.000
865Eventually we did it, which was amazing.
866
867217
86800:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.000
869But again, so much retrofitting, so much of like,
870
871218
87200:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.000
873what is this institution doing in the first place
874
875219
87600:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.000
877towards where it could kind of go afterwards.
878
879220
88000:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.000
881And so that's my experience in those different places.
882
883221
88400:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.000
885I mean, the real big takeaway is whatever publisher I was at
886
887222
88800:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.000
889or other people may have been at certain points in time,
890
891223
89200:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.000
893we're looking at 20 plus years of these institutions
894
895224
89600:16:06.000 --> 00:16:10.000
897being filled with wildly talented people at gathering information,
898
899225
90000:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.000
901at storytelling, constantly trying to figure out
902
903226
90400:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.000
905how to get that information to people through an aggregation era
906
907227
90800:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.000
909that just destroyed them, that destroyed the industry,
910
911228
91200:16:17.000 --> 00:16:21.000
913it destroyed so many different disciplines kind of within the industry.
914
915229
91600:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.000
917I could get lost down that part, it's a lot of trauma.
918
919230
92000:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.000
921The one thing I want to convey to this space
922
923231
92400:16:25.000 --> 00:16:28.000
925is just to know in the journalism industry, in the media industry,
926
927232
92800:16:28.000 --> 00:16:29.000
929that trauma is real.
930
931233
93200:16:29.000 --> 00:16:31.000
933The people who raise their hands can all think of the people
934
935234
93600:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.000
937who are not in this room, who are at other conferences
938
939235
94000:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.000
941or trying to do other projects right now,
942
943236
94400:16:35.000 --> 00:16:38.000
945who still lament the fact that they can't work on their story
946
947237
94800:16:38.000 --> 00:16:40.000
949for X amount of time or that there's not as much love
950
951238
95200:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.000
953of the craft of this or that.
954
955239
95600:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.000
957But the takeaway I hope for this conference kind of going forward
958
959240
96000:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.000
961is the concept of survivors, of the embers,
962
963241
96400:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.000
965of like what's left from this.
966
967242
96800:16:48.000 --> 00:16:50.000
969And I want to talk about very specific survivors.
970
971243
97200:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.000
973I have a few more I need to go through this presentation.
974
975244
97600:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.000
977One, Lauren, sitting right over there,
978
979245
98000:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.000
981we'll be up here later to talk a little bit about her journey
982
983246
98400:16:57.000 --> 00:17:02.000
985with Local News International, her six month old company, Lauren?
986
987247
98800:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.000
989Is that fair? Yeah.
990
991248
99200:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.000
993Six month old independent journalism company
994
995249
99600:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.000
997that is doing fabulous things and Dave, who's not here,
998
999250
100000:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.000
1001is kind of the face of it with those googly eyes.
1002
1003251
100400:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.000
1005And we'll talk a little bit more about Lauren's experience kind of later today.
1006
1007252
100800:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.000
1009I'll say one thing about Lauren's experience,
1010
1011253
101200:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.000
1013this is a chart I'm very happy to show off here.
1014
1015254
101600:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.000
1017Lauren, Dave and Micah, the three co-founders of Illinois,
1018
1019255
102000:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.000
1021who were there six months ago,
1022
1023256
102400:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.000
1025who were in broad strokes, Dave is the face of the TikTok channel.
1026
1027257
102800:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.000
1029He's known as Washington Post TikTok guy,
1030
1031258
103200:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.000
1033he's kind of like his nickname, his persona.
1034
1035259
103600:17:32.000 --> 00:17:33.000
1037There's a YouTube channel.
1038
1039260
104000:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.000
1041This is one look at a competitive kind of benchmarking
1042
1043261
104400:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.000
1045of what happened to the Washington Post's YouTube channels.
1046
1047262
104800:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.000
1049You can kind of see the things doing their things.
1050
1051263
105200:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.000
1053You can tell when Dave left, you can see what Dave built,
1054
1055264
105600:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.000
1057and you can see what happened here, right?
1058
1059265
106000:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.000
1061Which is the audience went with him.
1062
1063266
106400:17:49.000 --> 00:17:53.000
1065Like before platforms, there was a need for institutions
1066
1067267
106800:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.000
1069to be the platform, to be the distribution mechanism.
1070
1071268
107200:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.000
1073There are these slides that I've used in other contexts.
1074
1075269
107600:17:59.000 --> 00:18:02.000
1077Like I have a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old at home.
1078
1079270
108000:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.000
1081I've gone to a couple of career days where I've tried to explain
1082
1083271
108400:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.000
1085I'm a journalist, I'm an audience development journalist.
1086
1087272
108800:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.000
1089Let me explain to you middle schoolers and elementary school kids
1090
1091273
109200:18:09.000 --> 00:18:10.000
1093what that means.
1094
1095274
109600:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.000
1097To talk to Gen Alpha kids about what it means to work in a newspaper,
1098
1099275
110000:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.000
1101I've used slides like this to say this is what a newspaper is.
1102
1103276
110400:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.000
1105And everyone agrees.
1106
1107277
110800:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.000
1109One of the things I've loved Dave for so many years is he's lean.
1110
1111278
111200:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.000
1113This is why she was a TikTok guy.
1114
1115279
111600:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.000
1117He'll use the newspaper emoji to convey what he is.
1118
1119280
112000:18:25.000 --> 00:18:28.000
1121The emoji actually does the work of explaining what this artifact was
1122
1123281
112400:18:28.000 --> 00:18:30.000
1125pre-internet in a certain way.
1126
1127282
112800:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.000
1129And this is a slide I love showing the kids
1130
1131283
113200:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.000
1133because it's something we've talked about in newsrooms for a generation now.
1134
1135284
113600:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.000
1137For so long, you're going to train and train looked like this.
1138
1139285
114000:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.000
1141And at a certain point in time, you're going to train and it looked like this.
1142
1143286
114400:18:41.000 --> 00:18:44.000
1145When I was at the New York Times, you used to talk about the breakfast table dynamic.
1146
1147287
114800:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.000
1149Did you ever talk about that in your travels?
1150
1151288
115200:18:47.000 --> 00:18:50.000
1153Because for generations and generations, people would go to breakfast tables
1154
1155289
115600:18:50.000 --> 00:18:52.000
1157and what would they see in front of them
1158
1159290
116000:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.000
1161versus what would they see in front of them now?
1162
1163291
116400:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.000
1165Or was it the times just as we were putting the paywall up and figuring out
1166
1167292
116800:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.000
1169that breakfast table dynamic is going away
1170
1171293
117200:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.000
1173and we have to grab that brand equity.
1174
1175294
117600:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.000
1177And I think the Times has done an amazing job of doing exactly that,
1178
1179295
118000:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.000
1181grabbing that brand equity because now there is no more breakfast table like that.
1182
1183296
118400:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.000
1185And so the takeaway I hope from the heart of the spiel is just that
1186
1187297
118800:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.000
1189the individual journalists, those are the atomic units creating information.
1190
1191298
119200:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.000
1193And Erin's talk, I think, again, beautifully lays out there of like,
1194
1195299
119600:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.000
1197who are these nodes and networks to kind of move onto a protocol in kind of a certain way.
1198
1199300
120000:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.000
1201It's not just aspirational. It's not just anecdotal.
1202
1203301
120400:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.000
1205This is research that Reuters has been working towards for a few years
1206
1207302
120800:19:28.000 --> 00:19:32.000
1209and the last few months kind of continuing, kind of sharpening the version of displaying this.
1210
1211303
121200:19:32.000 --> 00:19:35.000
1213The thing to look at here is the purple and the blue and the ages, right?
1214
1215304
121600:19:35.000 --> 00:19:37.000
1217Who do younger audiences trust?
1218
1219305
122000:19:37.000 --> 00:19:41.000
1221Do they know to trust the brand or the brand, the individual behind it?
1222
1223306
122400:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.000
1225The atomic unit is the individual behind it.
1226
1227307
122800:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.000
1229And so I'm eager to tell a couple stories about individuals who are creating great journalism on the internet.
1230
1231308
123200:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.000
1233Yeah, you're a Casey fan?
1234
1235309
123600:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.000
1237I was thinking Casey the whole time.
1238
1239310
124000:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.000
1241Casey's got a really good case study here.
1242
1243311
124400:19:54.000 --> 00:19:57.000
1245He's an amazing case study. I mean, can I ask, why were you thinking of him?
1246
1247312
124800:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.000
1249Well, so I work in the artificial intelligence industry,
1250
1251313
125200:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.000
1253and we're in kind of a more very huge issue thing,
1254
1255314
125600:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.000
1257and really systematically in question.
1258
1259315
126000:20:06.000 --> 00:20:11.000
1261But like the way that like, it's kind of like then out of reach,
1262
1263316
126400:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.000
1265almost it seems in my mind, it's like the way that like a community of us functions.
1266
1267317
126800:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.000
1269And Casey is our guy.
1270
1271318
127200:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.000
1273So like, you're a platformer.
1274
1275319
127600:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.000
1277I read platformer.
1278
1279320
128000:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.000
1281Yeah.
1282
1283321
128400:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.000
1285It's an art work.
1286
1287322
128800:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.000
1289It's cool.
1290
1291323
129200:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.000
1293Like, you know, I taught him on market sequence.
1294
1295324
129600:20:25.000 --> 00:20:26.000
1297He's huge.
1298
1299325
130000:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.000
1301He's a tall man. Yeah.
1302
1303326
130400:20:27.000 --> 00:20:28.000
1305Very tall.
1306
1307327
130800:20:28.000 --> 00:20:29.000
1309Very kind man too.
1310
1311328
131200:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.000
1313Very tall kind man. Yes. Yeah.
1314
1315329
131600:20:31.000 --> 00:20:36.000
1317But he's probably the best example of what you're describing.
1318
1319330
132000:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.000
1321Yeah.
1322
1323331
132400:20:37.000 --> 00:20:39.000
1325He's about Casey as part of the version.
1326
1327332
132800:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.000
1329Exactly.
1330
1331333
133200:20:40.000 --> 00:20:45.000
1333So Casey, did you start following Casey's work when he was at the Verge as a reporter?
1334
1335334
133600:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.000
1337Yeah.
1338
1339335
134000:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.000
1341So you knew him from there, right?
1342
1343336
134400:20:47.000 --> 00:20:48.000
1345Casey is amazing.
1346
1347337
134800:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.000
1349I mean, we could spend hours talking about Casey and I would in other contexts.
1350
1351338
135200:20:51.000 --> 00:20:56.000
1353The takeaways for his conference, hopefully are Casey's an individual human reporter, right?
1354
1355339
135600:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.000
1357He was at an institution five years ago.
1358
1359340
136000:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.000
1361He very thoughtfully, I had to borrow a phrase from that time, decoupled from the Verge
1362
1363341
136400:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.000
1365for the first year or two of platformer.
1366
1367342
136800:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.000
1369I think even still, he made a gap for a little while.
1370
1371343
137200:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.000
1373He licensed back.
1374
1375344
137600:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.000
1377So Casey is now a publisher on Ghost at this point in time.
1378
1379345
138000:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.000
1381He had a sub-stack journey, which we won't get lost on that one.
1382
1383346
138400:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.000
1385But he has moved platforms multiple times and his audience follows him.
1386
1387347
138800:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.000
1389Now he is one of one, right?
1390
1391348
139200:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.000
1393I believe he might be the best living journalist alive.
1394
1395349
139600:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.000
1397I just think what he's doing is so important and his ability to run a business.
1398
1399350
140000:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.000
1401I think Casey's amazing in a million different ways.
1402
1403351
140400:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.000
1405For this room, I almost took a mastodon screenshot.
1406
1407352
140800:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.000
1409I didn't know if that would be on Kuth or not.
1410
1411353
141200:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.000
1413There was a protocol conference, right?
1414
1415354
141600:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.000
1417All open interoperability and we're bridging in every direction.
1418
1419355
142000:21:39.000 --> 00:21:44.000
1421Around late December, early January, there was a very special episode of Hard Fork and Search Engine
1422
1423356
142400:21:44.000 --> 00:21:47.000
1425where they launched the Forkaverse as a mastodon instance.
1426
1427357
142800:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.000
1429I was taking a walk listening.
1430
1431358
143200:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.000
1433My mind's been going towards protocol.
1434
1435359
143600:21:51.000 --> 00:21:56.000
1437I just had met Ted and Chad like weeks earlier.
1438
1439360
144000:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.000
1441I'm kind of reading up on things.
1442
1443361
144400:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.000
1445And to hear them say like, fuck it, we're doing to do it.
1446
1447362
144800:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.000
1449We're going to move people to an instance.
1450
1451363
145200:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.000
1453And tell this very special episode of buying the server space.
1454
1455364
145600:22:04.000 --> 00:22:10.000
1457And then to go online and be on number 100 and then to watch in the weeks go by 10,000, 12,000, 15,000 people.
1458
1459365
146000:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.000
1461You go to the instance.
1462
1463366
146400:22:11.000 --> 00:22:16.000
1465We're watching like the Pied Piper dynamic of what does it mean for a journalist to take their audience with them
1466
1467367
146800:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.000
1469to a protocol base.
1470
1471368
147200:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.000
1473Like Casey is that example for sure.
1474
1475369
147600:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.000
1477But there's so many other amazing examples.
1478
1479370
148000:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.000
1481I mean, again, I'm going to be a little mindful of time.
1482
1483371
148400:22:23.000 --> 00:22:24.000
1485I'm coming back up here later with Lauren.
1486
1487372
148800:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.000
1489And it's going to be so interesting.
1490
1491373
149200:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.000
1493I think they hear Lauren's story about running a business.
1494
1495374
149600:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.000
1497What does it mean to run a business?
1498
1499375
150000:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.000
1501What does she need to run a business?
1502
1503376
150400:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.000
1505What does it mean to find audience?
1506
1507377
150800:22:31.000 --> 00:22:36.000
1509What does it mean to do journalism on the internet today without all the legacy stuff of the newspapers and the radio and all that?
1510
1511378
151200:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.000
1513Does anybody here know Kyla Scanlon?
1514
1515379
151600:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.000
1517I love that, you know, she's amazing.
1518
1519380
152000:22:41.000 --> 00:22:43.000
1521She is, she's a phenom.
1522
1523381
152400:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.000
1525I mean, I don't, you know, she is a younger journalist, I'll just say.
1526
1527382
152800:22:46.000 --> 00:22:48.000
1529I think she is very early career-ish.
1530
1531383
153200:22:48.000 --> 00:22:53.000
1533But in a certain amount of years, my God, she is everywhere and she's good at everywhere.
1534
1535384
153600:22:53.000 --> 00:22:58.000
1537Like this quote that I found of hers on the Substac note captures some of her genius in a certain way.
1538
1539385
154000:22:59.000 --> 00:23:09.000
1541I made this slide this morning or last night, like just on LinkedIn in the last couple days, she's on LinkedIn talking about her appearance with like Marketplace on like a tour, as well as what's her other note over here.
1542
1543386
154400:23:09.000 --> 00:23:13.000
1545She has a new essay on her Substac, which is between some of her New York Times pieces.
1546
1547387
154800:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.000
1549Modern journalism, there are these individuals.
1550
1551388
155200:23:15.000 --> 00:23:21.000
1553Now, she again is a phenom, like the highest level of I think like, my God, she can manage all these platforms and she has a small team.
1554
1555389
155600:23:21.000 --> 00:23:22.000
1557Like she is just extraordinary.
1558
1559390
156000:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.000
1561But there are so many folks like this out there.
1562
1563391
156400:23:25.000 --> 00:23:32.000
1565So I am the one of the three co-founders of the journalism atlas.com or journalism atlas.com, the independent journalism atlas.
1566
1567392
156800:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.000
1569We launched six, seven weeks ago.
1570
1571393
157200:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.000
1573We're still figuring ourselves out in a lot of ways.
1574
1575394
157600:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.000
1577The thing we know we're doing is we are making a list of good independent journalism.
1578
1579395
158000:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.000
1581There's lots of amazing journals in the world.
1582
1583396
158400:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.000
1585There's lots of amazing institutions that need your support as well.
1586
1587397
158800:23:45.000 --> 00:23:53.000
1589But independent journalism has always been around going back to the days of like zines and, you know, radio and all sorts of other places.
1590
1591398
159200:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.000
1593The internet for a long time has allowed people to publish in certain ways.
1594
1595399
159600:23:57.000 --> 00:24:02.000
1597But at this moment in the timeline, there's so much important independent journalism.
1598
1599400
160000:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.000
1601There's so many people moving from institutions to independence.
1602
1603401
160400:24:05.000 --> 00:24:10.000
1605There's so many people who are independent who can kind of like robustly armor up themselves into businesses.
1606
1607402
160800:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.000
1609There is a live moment in this ecosystem.
1610
1611403
161200:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.000
1613So these are two screenshots of our product right now.
1614
1615404
161600:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.000
1617Our product is a prototype.
1618
1619405
162000:24:15.000 --> 00:24:20.000
1621We are just trying to kind of get in the market and show people how much great independent journalism this is.
1622
1623406
162400:24:20.000 --> 00:24:27.000
1625These are two views of a bubble view of like a geo look and then a topic based that kind of shows you platforms as well.
1626
1627407
162800:24:27.000 --> 00:24:37.000
1629The takeaway that, you know, despite the number one thing I'm going to say in this conference is as I meet more people who come from other industries who are working on things and thinking of the protocols application to what you can build.
1630
1631408
163200:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.000
1633The idea of federated media is happening and it has been happening.
1634
1635409
163600:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.000
1637Just it doesn't have that word.
1638
1639410
164000:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.000
1641And so, you know, I think that's a really important thing.
1642
1643411
164400:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.000
1645I think that's a really important thing.
1646
1647412
164800:24:46.000 --> 00:25:10.000
1649And I think that's a really important thing.
1650
1651413
165200:25:10.000 --> 00:25:12.000
1653The idea of a poly platform strategy.
1654
1655414
165600:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.000
1657To survive.
1658
1659415
166000:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.000
1661You know, their version of being the kelp.
1662
1663416
166400:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.000
1665Is like their fronds.
1666
1667417
166800:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.000
1669Have to show up in a few different places.
1670
1671418
167200:25:20.000 --> 00:25:21.000
1673While they figure out.
1674
1675419
167600:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.000
1677Kind of where the anchor space is going to be.
1678
1679420
168000:25:23.000 --> 00:25:27.000
1681You know, there's this amazing reporter.
1682
1683421
168400:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.000
1685Marisa.
1686
1687422
168800:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.000
1689Cap.
1690
1691423
169200:25:29.000 --> 00:25:30.000
1693Has anybody here.
1694
1695424
169600:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.000
1697If you guys are on.
1698
1699425
170000:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.000
1701Bluesky.
1702
1703426
170400:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.000
1705I love the hands.
1706
1707427
170800:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.000
1709Amazing.
1710
1711428
171200:25:34.000 --> 00:25:39.000
1713That's amazing.
1714
1715429
171600:25:39.000 --> 00:25:43.520
1717the hands. Amazing, amazing, amazing. Marisa again could spend hours talking
1718
1719430
172000:25:43.520 --> 00:25:47.000
1721about just her as a use case, another amazing use case of an independent
1722
1723431
172400:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.440
1725journalist. So this quote that's up here is from an Associated Press story about
1726
1727432
172800:25:51.440 --> 00:25:56.640
1729her maybe a month or two into a Trump 2 administration. So Marisa had this great
1730
1731433
173200:25:56.640 --> 00:26:01.620
1733scoop, she publishes it out, you know it's an amazing story, right, like a woman in
1734
1735434
173600:26:01.620 --> 00:26:04.200
1737Brooklyn who is a great independent reporter who gets access to this and
1738
1739435
174000:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.600
1741kind of off she goes. And this quote is just amazing, her stomach was not, the fact
1742
1743436
174400:26:07.600 --> 00:26:10.360
1745that like she was like living through this thing of like I'm in this apartment,
1746
1747437
174800:26:10.360 --> 00:26:13.960
1749I have this information, there is no legal team behind me, there is no
1750
1751438
175200:26:13.960 --> 00:26:17.160
1753institution, like she just kind of had to do it and she did it and you know and
1754
1755439
175600:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.180
1757actually this had this screenshot over here, that's not the scoop from a year
1758
1759440
176000:26:20.180 --> 00:26:23.200
1761ago, that's another scoop she had a month ago or so. She has now turned into like in
1762
1763441
176400:26:23.200 --> 00:26:27.040
1765a great another case study to think about in this room at this convening. You
1766
1767442
176800:26:27.040 --> 00:26:30.480
1769this is probably the most prominent scoop machine journalist active on Blue
1770
1771443
177200:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.660
1773Sky. I don't know that I would put another name out there and she's building this
1774
1775444
177600:26:34.660 --> 00:26:38.180
1777kind of business primarily off Bluesky. Like it's you know now she she's
1778
1779445
178000:26:38.180 --> 00:26:42.380
1781building her monetization off of Beyive or her newsletter is, but the fact that
1782
1783446
178400:26:42.380 --> 00:26:46.440
1785she has kind of done what she's done in this ecosystem with these communities, her
1786
1787447
178800:26:46.440 --> 00:26:50.540
1789funnel is Bluesky to Beyive right now and she's able to do stuff like this to
1790
1791448
179200:26:50.540 --> 00:26:53.820
1793move her subscriber count up, which gives her a business, which gives her a livelihood,
1794
1795449
179600:26:53.820 --> 00:26:56.860
1797which allows her to kind of keep creating journalism. And I hope this room
1798
1799450
180000:26:56.860 --> 00:27:00.820
1801as community can think about Marisa as a very tangible example right now, not just
1802
1803451
180400:27:00.820 --> 00:27:05.020
1805because of her, because what's being built around her in a certain way. So this
1806
1807452
180800:27:05.020 --> 00:27:09.620
1809is a product that just launched three or four days ago. Has anybody seen this news
1810
1811453
181200:27:09.620 --> 00:27:18.500
1813of Trust Fund? Amazing. So Michael Jar Jar is a media executive. He was at the
1814
1815454
181600:27:18.500 --> 00:27:22.380
1817FT for a while I know. He's been kind of ruminating on this for a few months. We've
1818
1819455
182000:27:22.380 --> 00:27:24.540
1821been in touch with him from the independent journalism Atlas. We were in
1822
1823456
182400:27:24.540 --> 00:27:28.140
1825touch with him a few months ago as he was starting. We consider him a very big
1826
1827457
182800:27:28.140 --> 00:27:31.020
1829fellow traveler. He gave us a heads up a week or two ago and said, hey, it's
1830
1831458
183200:27:31.020 --> 00:27:34.620
1833getting kind of real here and thank you for launching as I build my tech stack.
1834
1835459
183600:27:34.620 --> 00:27:38.300
1837It's been nice to have your database like publicly out there. I ingested it
1838
1839460
184000:27:38.300 --> 00:27:41.980
1841and I figured out affinity scores like I'm helping add towards my like
1842
1843461
184400:27:41.980 --> 00:27:46.020
1845subscription bundle creating tool. What his tool is, is it's a little smaller
1846
1847462
184800:27:46.020 --> 00:27:49.700
1849here, is he's allowing independent journalists to sign up. If they're on
1850
1851463
185200:27:49.700 --> 00:27:54.100
1853Beyive or sub stack, he kind of has that handshake kind of figured out. And if
1854
1855464
185600:27:54.100 --> 00:27:58.140
1857you're at Beyive or sub stack, you can sign on with his platform. If you're an
1858
1859465
186000:27:58.140 --> 00:28:01.340
1861independent publisher of newsletters, you can find other people like you and or
1862
1863466
186400:28:01.340 --> 00:28:04.060
1865you can go on and be like these are the two or three I want to work with. And the
1866
1867467
186800:28:04.060 --> 00:28:06.820
1869screenshot kind of shows how if you're an independent publisher you can say
1870
1871468
187200:28:06.820 --> 00:28:10.340
1873we're a bundle now. We'll all be a little cheaper if you buy our bigger bundle.
1874
1875469
187600:28:10.340 --> 00:28:14.140
1877Which solves for a problem I think people have seen for a long time of like
1878
1879470
188000:28:14.140 --> 00:28:17.080
1881well I understood paying for the one bundle over there. Now there's like 75
1882
1883471
188400:28:17.080 --> 00:28:20.740
1885independence. I love Casey. I love Marisa. How many independent subscriptions I
1886
1887472
188800:28:20.740 --> 00:28:23.900
1889manage over here. So I think Michael is in a great direction. Doing this thing
1890
1891473
189200:28:23.900 --> 00:28:27.260
1893now. He's off protocol. He's building the software in a different way. But an
1894
1895474
189600:28:27.260 --> 00:28:29.460
1897amazing example to bring here because he's building with somebody who is on
1898
1899475
190000:28:29.460 --> 00:28:34.220
1901protocol. And you know the idea of like who's wearing what they're doing is the
1902
1903476
190400:28:34.220 --> 00:28:37.540
1905the guts of what I'd love to work on here like in these next couple days. This
1906
1907477
190800:28:37.540 --> 00:28:40.220
1909is another visualization of like what we're building at the Atlas. Again we're
1910
1911478
191200:28:40.220 --> 00:28:44.700
1913all prototypes at this point. We are you know showing our you know our laundry
1914
1915479
191600:28:44.700 --> 00:28:50.100
1917over here. Like I, all three of us are not technical to you know lightly kind of
1918
1919480
192000:28:50.100 --> 00:28:53.780
1921say something here. 15 years ago or so when I was a fact check that org in the
1922
1923481
192400:28:53.780 --> 00:28:57.660
1925beginning of my career as a fact check reporter in 2006 7 8 at one point in
1926
1927482
192800:28:57.660 --> 00:29:01.020
1929time I said we need a new website. I downloaded some WordPress software. I
1930
1931483
193200:29:01.020 --> 00:29:05.620
1933watched some YouTube videos. I FTP'd up some stuff. I dreamweaver was truly how I
1934
1935484
193600:29:05.620 --> 00:29:09.460
1937learned how to internet. And then I end up these cool jobs right. It wasn't my job
1938
1939485
194000:29:09.460 --> 00:29:12.700
1941to build anymore. I just hopefully was a good enough colleague to the Tyler's of
1942
1943486
194400:29:12.700 --> 00:29:16.340
1945the world and saying like hey I think this can we build that. So to kind of
1946
1947487
194800:29:16.340 --> 00:29:19.700
1949come back to a like Claude cursor powered world and kind of build these
1950
1951488
195200:29:19.700 --> 00:29:24.260
1953tools. We're prototyping in real time but our actual idea and work we think is
1954
1955489
195600:29:24.260 --> 00:29:27.620
1957the curation. Is the finding of the journal server here. And so this is just
1958
1959490
196000:29:27.620 --> 00:29:31.900
1961another like array visualization of like at this point we have 1165 people
1962
1963491
196400:29:31.900 --> 00:29:35.980
1965publicly on the website. And we're kind of showing here's the you know where
1966
1967492
196800:29:35.980 --> 00:29:38.340
1969they're living. They're on these platforms not on these platforms. They're
1970
1971493
197200:29:38.340 --> 00:29:41.900
1973publishing this kind of content. We have like I'm kind of showing a little
1974
1975494
197600:29:41.900 --> 00:29:44.900
1977something on this slide of like we have thousands more who are kind of like in a
1978
1979495
198000:29:44.900 --> 00:29:48.500
1981catalog. We're just not in a rush to keep publishing everything immediately. We're
1982
1983496
198400:29:48.500 --> 00:29:51.860
1985trying to figure out like how to thoughtfully do it. Should we be launching
1986
1987497
198800:29:51.860 --> 00:29:55.260
1989in more cities or should we doing more globally. Should we doing this platform
1990
1991498
199200:29:55.260 --> 00:29:59.260
1993versus that platform. Should we work with a certain platform partner who as we
1994
1995499
199600:29:59.260 --> 00:30:02.580
1997publish will try to get more visibility for them on other platforms or figure
1998
1999500
200000:30:02.580 --> 00:30:05.980
2001out their monetization hooks. And we are very live kind of in those conversations
2002
2003501
200400:30:05.980 --> 00:30:09.780
2005right now. These are roughly the three groups we're talking to. Trying to figure
2006
2007502
200800:30:09.780 --> 00:30:14.740
2009out like between philanthropy publishers and platforms. There's intermediation to
2010
2011503
201200:30:14.740 --> 00:30:19.700
2013do on behalf of creators as cohorts. Some were very actively have a couple dozen
2014
2015504
201600:30:19.700 --> 00:30:22.420
2017let's say creators who want to work with a certain publisher in a certain way or
2018
2019505
202000:30:22.420 --> 00:30:25.900
2021work with a platform in a certain way. Some as we're kind of doing BD almost like
2022
2023506
202400:30:25.900 --> 00:30:30.860
2025is a ghost like entity to say well if we did something like this platform X or
2026
2027507
202800:30:30.860 --> 00:30:33.620
2029publisher why could you work with people in a way. We are kind of really just
2030
2031508
203200:30:33.620 --> 00:30:36.620
2033trying to like conceptually kind of proof of concept thing over here. And we're
2034
2035509
203600:30:36.620 --> 00:30:40.180
2037looking for anyone else like Michael a fellow traveler who wants to build who
2038
2039510
204000:30:40.180 --> 00:30:44.060
2041wants to fund who wants to operate this kind of more like multimodal network
2042
2043511
204400:30:44.060 --> 00:30:48.020
2045node kind of existence. This is I guess the best expression I think of what we
2046
2047512
204800:30:48.020 --> 00:30:50.900
2049are in this space. I think we're a lot of things in a lot of different rooms but
2050
2051513
205200:30:50.900 --> 00:30:55.300
2053to this room to this conference where I think our project offers is that we're
2054
2055514
205600:30:55.300 --> 00:31:00.420
2057committed to making a long long list in database. We have a thousand you know
2058
2059515
206000:31:00.420 --> 00:31:04.900
2061plus already we see the path three four five thousand frankly. As time goes on as
2062
2063516
206400:31:04.900 --> 00:31:08.420
2065I understand what we're able to do with software and with like the seeds of our
2066
2067517
206800:31:08.420 --> 00:31:11.820
2069curation. If we imagine a world where we can actually go around the globe look
2070
2071518
207200:31:11.820 --> 00:31:15.580
2073across all platforms as they are today I think there are hundreds of thousands
2074
2075519
207600:31:15.580 --> 00:31:19.620
2077of high-quality I'll call them journalism creators but not journalists
2078
2079520
208000:31:19.620 --> 00:31:23.420
2081necessarily. My co-founder Ryan when he was at Neiman he did some work in thinking
2082
2083521
208400:31:23.420 --> 00:31:26.460
2085this through and said you know as I look around there's too many people who don't
2086
2087522
208800:31:26.460 --> 00:31:30.380
2089identify as journalists but they're doing journalism and so last year for
2090
2091523
209200:31:30.380 --> 00:31:34.500
2093Neiman Lab he wrote a thoughtful piece it's journalism not journalists. We are
2094
2095524
209600:31:34.500 --> 00:31:37.860
2097following that kind of like conceptual framework over here so this is some
2098
2099525
210000:31:37.860 --> 00:31:40.860
2101language that we spent some time thinking through. And as we go through
2102
2103526
210400:31:40.980 --> 00:31:43.820
2105our database has some things that are hiding in plain sight like Joe Rogan's
2106
2107527
210800:31:43.820 --> 00:31:47.540
2109on there. I think I don't say it's provocative but we do want to say that
2110
2111528
211200:31:47.540 --> 00:31:50.380
2113if people are going to interview people newsmakers and put the information on
2114
2115529
211600:31:50.380 --> 00:31:54.580
2117display just like Barbara Walters Oprah you know the the hot wings get like I
2118
2119530
212000:31:54.580 --> 00:31:57.380
2121don't know if hot ones is on our list or not but I would put them on there. People
2122
2123531
212400:31:57.380 --> 00:32:01.180
2125who are giving a platform to information of people who can influence other
2126
2127532
212800:32:01.180 --> 00:32:04.860
2129people's lives is journalism of a certain stripe. The language we love the
2130
2131533
213200:32:04.860 --> 00:32:07.500
2133most that's been the most helpful to us when there's been edge cases we're kind
2134
2135534
213600:32:07.500 --> 00:32:12.260
2137of curious what we're doing is the word missional which is hiding in that first
2138
2139535
214000:32:12.260 --> 00:32:16.380
2141paragraph. It's missional work that advances information and understanding
2142
2143536
214400:32:16.380 --> 00:32:20.340
2145for a community. Hearing Aaron speak a second ago again I get chills just
2146
2147537
214800:32:20.340 --> 00:32:23.460
2149thinking about it again that's the community we want to be in we love
2150
2151538
215200:32:23.460 --> 00:32:27.660
2153journalism we love the tradecraft I've spent my career in newsrooms loving the
2154
2155539
215600:32:27.660 --> 00:32:29.980
2157stories about like what happened when you know I lived through the Edward
2158
2159540
216000:32:29.980 --> 00:32:32.620
2161Snowden stuff but to be in the newsrooms where the pending on papers happened or
2162
2163541
216400:32:32.620 --> 00:32:37.140
2165the deep throat stuff like to hear these stories is amazing but at this moment in
2166
2167542
216800:32:37.140 --> 00:32:39.940
2169time with the timeline we're going forward in we really think about the
2170
2171543
217200:32:39.940 --> 00:32:42.900
2173people doing it they like Marisa sitting at that kitchen table and how does she
2174
2175544
217600:32:42.900 --> 00:32:46.180
2177get source information how does she get validation how she get monetization kind
2178
2179545
218000:32:46.180 --> 00:32:48.580
2181of against her in a certain way so these are the folks we're talking to you
2182
2183546
218400:32:48.580 --> 00:32:51.500
2185here's another kind of shot of like a prototyping thing we're kind of building
2186
2187547
218800:32:51.500 --> 00:32:54.580
2189out we have dozens of these things I'm just saying well we have the data as is
2190
2191548
219200:32:54.580 --> 00:32:57.940
2193publicly we have more data behind the scenes anyone here who wants to talk
2194
2195549
219600:32:57.940 --> 00:33:03.260
2197about by geo by topic by platform we have 18 columns of like metadata we're
2198
2199550
220000:33:03.260 --> 00:33:06.740
2201kind of cultivating behind the scenes we are thrilled to work with anybody and we
2202
2203551
220400:33:06.740 --> 00:33:09.660
2205also have active communities that we can go query and ask them qualitative
2206
2207552
220800:33:09.660 --> 00:33:12.900
2209questions how are you making money who's the third person you would hire what tax
2210
2211553
221200:33:12.900 --> 00:33:15.980
2213deck would you want in a certain way we are very eager to build in public
2214
2215554
221600:33:15.980 --> 00:33:19.620
2217alongside people and just keep building prototypes and other I mean we've kind
2218
2219555
222000:33:19.620 --> 00:33:22.740
2221of figured out in the end and I think I have this on this slide kind of what we
2222
2223556
222400:33:22.740 --> 00:33:26.180
2225are we are figuring out our product market fit where we've kind of gone seven
2226
2227557
222800:33:26.180 --> 00:33:29.140
2229weeks in as we were losing real clearly we do think there's a B2C thing here
2230
2231558
223200:33:29.140 --> 00:33:32.020
2233like people should hopefully find this thing and if you individually want to
2234
2235559
223600:33:32.020 --> 00:33:35.500
2237find great creators amazing but the real value we have is our relationships
2238
2239560
224000:33:35.500 --> 00:33:40.100
2241institutions we're looking to figure out this B2B thing of like any entity
2242
2243561
224400:33:40.100 --> 00:33:43.380
2245whether you are a startup or a long-running institution whatever your
2246
2247562
224800:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.980
2249modernization hooks are if you need access to high quality information
2250
2251563
225200:33:45.980 --> 00:33:48.220
2253those are the people who want to talk to and if you're building that direction we
2254
2255564
225600:33:48.220 --> 00:33:53.540
2257want to talk alongside you as well and I kind of want to land on this to say like
2258
2259565
226000:33:53.540 --> 00:33:57.980
2261you know actually I kind of grabbed it when I was in the room I put this there I
2262
2263566
226400:33:57.980 --> 00:34:01.300
2265just was sitting gobsmacked with Aaron's elegance and just thought well if we
2266
2267567
226800:34:01.300 --> 00:34:04.900
2269need to you know anchor networks and humans this was the slide I built was my
2270
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2273version of that like the community I come from of independent journalists and
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2277creators of people constructing journals and people who wouldn't even know they're
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2281in my community we're doing it but I want champion them these are the three
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228400:34:14.180 --> 00:34:17.380
2285things they need and so anything we can do in these next couple days to figure
2286
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228800:34:17.380 --> 00:34:21.260
2289out the audience portability question the discoverability coordination
2290
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2293questions and the questions of community management and monetization tools Kevin
2294
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229600:34:25.140 --> 00:34:29.660
2297Kelly's thousand true fans wired essay rings deeply in this community we'd love
2298
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2301to talk and kind of meet community with you guys as well about that so I'll just
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2305end with this and say it like you know I've been saying this to Jen and Tessa
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2309kind of came online here I can't believe how structurally aligned the work and
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2313mission of journalism is to protocol based thinking our institutions have
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2317just been turned into what they've turned into journalists are finding a
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2321way through networks and nodes I'm just like tickled with the concept of the
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2325people who are doing the deep-seated work on what the software means to build in
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2329that direction how aligned is with the humans creating the journalism are that's
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233200:35:01.980 --> 00:35:11.340
2333what let's talk about here I was like right bang on time awesome thank you
2334
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233600:35:11.340 --> 00:35:16.780
2337Justin Justin is around the conference and he's looking to connect with folks
2338
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234000:35:16.780 --> 00:35:19.500
2341so please connect with him if you want to talk more about this stuff we're
2342
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234400:35:19.500 --> 00:35:22.940
2345gonna just swap out our setup here we're running of course 10-15 minutes behind
2346
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234800:35:22.940 --> 00:35:27.220
2349but hey it's atmosphere conference it's the same last year this is this is
2350
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2353beginning to be a tradition all right so Natalie come on up and get connected
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2357here
2358